Hi Mike,

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you.After Harriet Cree married my Grandfather William Watters (B1897-D1959) she gave birth to my father William (B1929-D1990) and his sister Dorothy (B1931-D2013)  My father married my mother Agnes Shaw (B1925-D2005) and I was born in 1965.

Kind regards

Fiona Campbell

Hi Mike,

Thanks very much for the feedback. I was first introduced to the www.cree.name website by a family member who had done some previous research and I then became interested and established that it was the Forteviot line of Crees that I came from. It shows my grandfather and two of his sons but not my father nor my auntie. Also I found some errors with my uncle's birthdates. My family migrated to Australia in 1950.

I have a lot more information that I would like to add to the family tree including my parents, siblings and grandchildren. Could you kindly advise the procedures and protocol for making alterations and additions to the Cree family tree.

I would very much like to catch up with you when you are in Toongabbie next year, we live only a very short distance from there. We will be away overseas in March but can arrange to meet up with you sometime after we get back.

Kind regards,

Ed Cree

Hi Mike,

Thanks for getting in touch. I am in the Forteviot Branch and have traced my lineage all the way back to Alexander Cree (or Crei) born in 1673. The records do not appear to go back beyond that date.

Out of interest, are you just a member, like myself, or are you somehow associated with the website, like an administrator or similar?

Regards,

Ed Cree

Trevor & Mike,

Thanks for replying. It is easy to get lost or sidetracked when you go back this far, after all John Crie & Catherine Clerk would be my G x 7 grandparents, so I think its best to have a tangible reason for justifying each move back in time. Although all families did not stick to this naming pattern rigidly, many did & many at least used a variation of this.

Again I think its highly unusual for a couple to have 6 daughters & not give one of them the name of the fathers mother as happened with John Crie & Agnes Waddel if Catherine Clerk were John's mother. I am satisfied that my John Crie who married Jean Keillor in 1752 is the son of John Crie & Catherine Clerk. The problem is where to go from here. Thanks for your help & congratulations on this site & the cree name site which are a wonderful source of information.  

Sean,

It is certainly very complicated trying to determine who was the father of the two John Crie's who married in 1751 and 1752 and therefore what line each individual originated from. Hopefully you have taken a look at the Scottish Old Parish Registers for Births/Baptisms and Marriages that can be found here http://www.cree.name/indexes/sct.htm on Excel files.

The John Crie who married Agnes Waddel (Waddle) on the 2nd February 1751 in Perth had the following 12 recorded children in this order: Janet (1752), Agnes (1752), John (1754), William (1757), Helen (1758), Alexander (1761), Mary (1763), Patrick (1764), Elizabeth (1767), Thomas (1770), Laurence (1770), and Margaret (1771). (Based on the children's names it could be that this John Crie was actually the son of Alexander Crie & Agnas McFarland whose marriage was recorded on the 16 February 1708 in Methven. Alexander & Agnas had children named Alexander and Patrick). The marriage record of John Crie and Agnes Waddel states that he was from the parish of Perth and she was from the parish of Redgorton.

The John Crie who married Jean Keiler (Killer) on the 15 May 1752 in Perth had the following 4 children in this order: May (1752), Catherine (1754), Jean (1758) and John (1750). (As you say it could be that this John Crie was the son of John Crie and Catherine Clerk based on the use of the child's name Catherine) The marriage record of this John Crie and Jean Killer states that they were both of the parish of Perth.

A particular problem arises because the first parish records in Scotland started at different dates and therefore when someone appears on the marriage record their birth/baptism may not have been recorded in their particular parish. Clearly it has always been a complicated jigsaw puzzle in the early Cree/Crie years with many missing pieces. I guess that it is like archaeology were you have a hypothesis until new evidence comes along.    

Mike & Trevor, 

Re: JOHN CRIE & JEAN KEILLOR

SCOTTISH NAMING PATTERNS

Most often used pattern for given names was

1st son after paternal grandfather
2nd son after maternal grandfatther
3rd son after father
1st daughter after maternal grandmother
2nd daughter after paternal grandmother
3rd daughter after mother

I refer to the above & have applied it to the family of John & Jean on the basis that the 3rd daughter was named after the mother which we know happened in this case with the 3rd daughter being Jean born 14th Jun 1758.

I therefore suggest the following possibility:

John Crie & Jean Keillor marry 15th May 1752, Perth.

1st Daughter - May - born 2nd Dec 1752, Perth. - named after mother's mother - Margaret Weddell.

2nd Daughter - Catherine - born 19th Apr 1754, Perth - named after father's mother- Catherine Clark.

3rd Daughter - Jean - born 14th Jun 1758, Perth - named after mother - Jean Keillor.

1st Son - John - born 14th Feb 1760, Perth - named after father's father - John Crie.

I believe Jean Keillor was bapt 30 Sep 1726, St Martins, Perth - daughter of George Keillor & Margaret Weddell who married 2nd Dec 1720, St Martins, Perth.

I suggest that John Crie was bapt 19th Jan 1718, Newburgh, Fife - son of John Crie & Catherine Clark who married 20th Oct 1711, Abernethy, Perth. 

Your records show John Crie (bapt 19th Jan 1718, Newburgh, Fife - son of John Crie & Catherine Clerk) as having married Agnes Waddle in 1751, however not withstanding whether the old scottish naming paterns where strictly adhered to or not it would be highly unusual for a couple to have as many as 6 daughters ( Janet,Agnes,Helen,Mary,Elizabeth & Margaret )  & not name even 1 of them after the father's mother ( Catherine ).

Would appreciate your feedback on this.

Wishing you all a Happy New Year                                                                                           Sean Harrington

Hi Mike & Trevor,

Don't you think that it is unusual that none of their 6 daughters were named Catherine after their father's mother Catherine Clerk? 

Trevor & Mike,

Your records show a John Crie bap 19 Jan 1718 ( son of John Cree & Catherine Clerk ) who marries an Agnes Waddle 2 Feb 1751. How sure are you that this information is correct, particularly the marriage to Agnes? 

Sean and Mike,

In the copies of the Old Parish Registers that I sent earlier we do have the christening of a William Crie, 12 February 1761, Perth, Perthshire, to "James Crie, Miller, and Jannet Kid". The combination of 'Miller' whose spouse was "Jannet Kid" made me consider that perhaps 'James' was a mistake and that it was possibly John Crie.That has certainly happened in other cases.

With respect to your question about the christening of David Cree to David Cree in Kinnoul in 1706 there are no further clues in the register. However at the christening of his daughter Janet in 1702 in Kinnoul parish we have the interesting phrase of 'David Cree in Balthaioch'. I believe this may be Balthayock and this can be found on a Google satellite map close to Kinfauns but not far from Kinnoul Hill.

In the 'Rentall of the County of Perth, by act of the estates of Scotland, 4th August 1649 we have reference in Kinnoul Parish to a Thomas Cree and to Balthayock. This Thomas could well be related to David Cree.

https://archive.org/stream/rentallofcountyo00gloauoft/rentallofcountyo00gloauoft_djvu.txt  

"Thomas Cree, for his houssmaills, eight punds, eighteene shilling" 

Christening of Janet Cree, 1702, Kinnoul.